About this Podcast Episode
On this episode, Angela and Kristin introduce a lesser-known cohort of kids, those who are both gifted and have a learning challenge or developmental disability. They talk about the experiences of “2E” kids, their families, and tips for supporting them at home and school.
About the Hosts
Angela Nelson, Ed.D., BCBA, and Kristin Bandi, MA, BCBA, are Board Certified Behavior Analysts with expertise on human behavior and child development. They spend their days working with parents and caregivers of both typically developing children as well as children with learning, social, and behavioral challenges, or developmental disabilities. This podcast is brought to you by RethinkCare.
If you need support as a parent or caregiver of a child, we encourage you to ask your Human Resources team if RethinkCare is a part of your employer-provided benefits. RethinkCare reaches millions of lives globally through partnerships with top organizations and Fortune 1,000 companies.
Transcript
Welcome to episode 49 of Behaviorally Speaking, a podcast featuring board certified behavior analysts Angela Nelson and Kristin Bandi. On this episode, they talk twice exceptional kids, their challenges and strengths, and tips for parents to help them thrive. And now, here are your hosts, Angela Nelson and Kristin Bandi.
Angie: Hello and welcome to our 49th episode of Behaviorally Speaking. I’m one of your hosts, Dr. Angela Nelson, board certified behavior analyst and mother of two.
Kristin: And I’m Kristin Bondi, also a board certified behavior analyst and mother of three. Hey Angie, how’s it going?
Angie: It is good. This is, I think yeah this is our first podcast I’m recording in the summer months with my kids home and you do.
Kristin: Oh yeah. So, you’re yeah, I’ve got a kid home. You’ve got some kids home. So, I feel like this time last year we definitely heard some rumblings from your girls, and you were like working from home, doing a podcast or something like that.
Angie: Yeah, today actually I’m lucky because my mom came today to hang out with them. She’s gonna take them to Barnes and Noble and kind of zip around town.
Kristin: Oh, that’s good.
Angie: So, it’s kind of, I think they’re, they may have already left which is nice so yeah, I can’t complain.
Kristin: Yeah, we’ve talked about before you enter like a new era of parenting when you can have a kid home and you’re like oh, but I can still do the things I need to be doing.
Angie: Yup. Oh yeah, it’s glorious.
Kristin: Um and when you entered it, I was like oh man what’s that like? I’m getting there. At least I’ve got one there. Not the other two but at least one.
Angie: Yeah, yeah, you’re kind of interested in transition with your second, right? Like you’re slowly easing into it.
Kristin: Yeah, she, yeah, she’s getting there. She just turned six so you would think so, but she’s the polar opposite of my oldest, so she likes to test the boundaries. So, if I say like don’t come in, I’m on a call, she’ll poke her eyes through like the little hole in the door or she’ll like stick her fingers under the door.
Angie: What kind of doors do you have? Like some like old castle doors with like a key lock like hole?
Kristin: There is the hole yeah and speak so I’m actually looking right at it. So, this office door for some reason has like a deadbolt lock but we redid all the handles when we moved into this house, and we didn’t ever redo the deadbolt lock. I’m like why is there a deadbolt lock to this door in the first place? And so now it’s just a hole. So there really is a hole in the wall in the door.
Angie: Interesting, for like and like a medieval key those in there?
Kristin: Maybe.
Angie: Okay you gotta text me a picture of that.
Kristin: I don’t know. Yeah, there’s like a deadbolt. Yeah, it’s a, think of like you know your front door has like a deadbolt latch or a lock.
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: Yeah, this one has like a hole cut out for it, but we didn’t put pull one in.
Angie: Oh, you have like a whole like a legit hole there for a, okay gotcha.
Kristin: Yes.
Angie: I’m thinking of like a keyhole that you have like a full on like large several inch.
Kristin: A deadbolt oh yeah, no, now the keyhole would be way cooler.
Angie: Yeah, ah okay we digress.
Kristin: It would be way cooler. This is like a hole that she could fit her hand through, but she probably has.
Angie: But okay now I’m envisioning it like got it, got it. Oh man. Okay well let’s segue to our topic here which has nothing to do with deadbolts and locks and things.
Kristin: No, not at all.
Angie: We are going to talk about twice exceptional children 2E kids which we talk quite a bit about this topic in our line of work. And we thought it would be important to kind of dive into this today.
What are 2E Kids?
Angie: So why are we discussing this right? It’s fairly rare, um and it’s a unique cohort of kids who oftentimes need some specific type of support. So, if you haven’t heard of 2E or twice exceptional, that’s what it means twice exceptional, basically means you’ve got ah a kiddo that is both gifted and also requires maybe some special education right? Gifted and maybe has a learning or thinking difference, maybe a developmental disability, maybe autism or ADHD and so on. And so, um you know we encounter these kids a lot in our work. It might be here some examples of you know kids that might be somebody, diagnosed with autism. Perhaps they have extreme interests and maybe really, really strong memory with let’s say for example like US history facts or playing an instrument, but they might have some real challenges socially connecting with others. Um maybe there’s a child with ADHD, and they might have difficulty with their executive functioning skills but let’s say they’re incredibly gifted and far beyond their peers in math. So those are just examples. Um Kristin I know when you and I were looking at the stats to find ah you know what the prevalence was it looked like about 6% of kids in the US are identified as gifted and then we saw pretty close to that in terms of kids that also have some sort of learning or thinking or social difference, right? So, it was about 2% to 5%, so that was just interesting to see.
Kristin: Mhmm.
Angie: There’s a lot of overlap then. These conditions can definitely mask each other. So masking meaning like kind of camouflage each other, we’re going to talk a little bit more about that in a minute, but I will also just mention I got consent from my daughter, I have one daughter who ah is identified as gifted um through the school system. We knew very, very early on that something was she there, she was like very early talker just you know and so on so anyways yeah and in the state of California they test all their, all the kids in about third grade usually and so, she was identified as gifted. Yeah, we’ll, I think we’ll probably talk into that a bit more as we go through as well. But yeah, I just wanted to preface it with that. I’ve got some personal experience on this topic um too.
Kristin: Yeah. So, who better to talk about it? Yeah, you’ve got personal experience. I actually didn’t know that they that’s kind of cool that they test all the kids because I feel like that you know a lot of parents at least in my consultations with families ah sometimes parents will say to me you know I don’t know, like, I feel like they might be gifted, how do I can I get them tested right? And I like that it’s just offered, and that way it’s just something that they do. So, you could see as a parent because especially so some parents who only have one child and they don’t have really any other comparison then they’re like well I don’t know if they are or not so yeah, that’s interesting.
Angie: Yeah, this isn’t like a super like they don’t do all the psychological testing, and you know to the nth degree. I think you can pay; I know there’s some parents that pay to do all these special tests done.
Kristin: Right.
Angie: And it’s not every school district some school districts don’t have the funds or the capacity to do ah take as these tests, but they’re called Gifted and Talented Education GATE.
Kristin: Oh okay.
Angie: That’s the acronym, but it’s been around like since I was a kid too you know like we all got tested for it and stuff, but I think a lot of districts just do it. And I don’t know it’s she does extracurricular things in the day back in the day you know we would go to like a special school on Fridays or whatever. But now the kids just a lot of it is just integrated into the classroom. And then they have special enrichment things that they do outside the class after school, so yeah.
Federal Requirements for Gifted Education
Kristin: Oh awesome, good. Well yeah, we are going to get into some of that in a bit on some of the tips and things that you can do as parents, but so, one of the things that we wanted to mention so when Angie and I you know when we were prepping this, we did think wow that 6% feels kind of low, I don’t know, I felt like it’d be higher. And then you know along with that at the even you know 2%-5% having you know being twice exceptional, I was alarmed by that number too, but some other when we were doing some more research on this, we also learned that so, unlike special education there’s actually no federal requirement for gifted education. So that means that the school district doesn’t actually have to provide any support for these children, which is interesting. I mean that was something that we learned, and we were like wow ah you know special education they’re like nope be absolutely, you have to you have to do all these things, they need to have you know if they have an IEP we have to meet all these regulations, but for gifted it’s a different beast, right? Like they don’t actually have to provide any enrichment programs or anything. So, I thought that was really interesting and I didn’t know that before.
Angie: Mm-hmm.
Possible Reasons Gifted Students Don’t Receive Federal Support
Kristin: So yeah, we thought maybe there were a couple of reasons for that. It might be because maybe it is because it’s a small percentage of the group, right? So, they’re like you had just said right? like We don’t have the funds for it. So, there are only so many things we can do as a school and so many things we can do to support all the kids, and this is something that you know it’s not required, maybe because they don’t have the funds for it perhaps. That could be a reason and the other reason we were talking about is maybe they’re not, at least I think maybe sometimes the kids aren’t actually recognized as gifted like we were saying.
Angie: Yeah
Kristin: So, if there is a test and these children okay, they fall under that then the test is there, and the parents know, but like I’ve I’m saying a lot of parents I’ve worked with they have no clue because there’s no testing and so, they do what you said where they’ll go and get a different like psychological assessment or neuropsychic evaluation just to find out if their child is gifted or if they do have ADHD or something else. So, a lot of times it’s not provided through the school.
Angie: Yeah absolutely. Yeah, I think it kind of just depends on the local area where you are, get lucky.
Tip Offs That Your Child Is Twice Exceptional
Kristin: Yeah, that’s true. So, ask questions. If you want to know, ask questions. So, one other thing and we’re going to get into some of the tips that we came up with, but one other thing that we were we were talking about is a lot of times I’ll get parents who are talking to me and they’re like well I don’t know if my child is gifted right? And I don’t know if they’re twice exceptional. So how do I know? And so, we found some “tip offs”. I’ll put them in quotes “tip offs” from understood.org which we mention all the time because it’s a really, really good site. And there are three that are listed.
Tip off #1: Gap Between School and Aptitude Performance
Kristin: So, one like Angie mentioned before. So maybe an extraordinary talent in a particular area so like math or drawing ah maybe their verbal communication or maybe music abilities. They have an extraordinary talent there. Maybe there’s a significant gap between your child’s performance in school and then their performance on like aptitude tests. That’s actually the one that I hear about most often from parents.
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: Parents will say they’re not like living up to their potential, like I know they could do this, their scores are off the charts but they’re, what they’re doing and producing at school is just not that. So yeah, that’s probably the one I hear about the one I hear about the most.
Tip off #2: Processing Disorder (Following Direction, Understanding, etc.)
Kristin: And then another one any signs of a processing disorder. So maybe having trouble following or following spoken direction or listening to directions or maybe understanding stories that are read aloud. So maybe having a little bit of a slow processing speed there and having difficulty with that could be a tip off as well.
Angie: Yeah, those are good ones. I think a lot of times trusting your gut, right? A lot of times the parents are the first ones that kind of notice huh there’s some splinter skills here or there’s just some you know big like jagged profiles of like extreme abilities here but then real challenges there so yeah absolutely.
Angie: Okay. Well, I kind of already talked about my daughter and my experience a little bit. We can kind of get into the tips, but I think just overall um yeah, I think let’s just roll right into those.
Tips for Supporting 2E Children
Tip #1: Educate Yourself on Aspects of 2E
Kristin: Do it, okay. So, the first one and this is interesting. I think this runs you know it’s a common theme among most of our podcasts where we say educate yourself right? So, the first tip and exactly what you’re doing by listening to this podcast is educating yourself on the aspects of 2E so twice exceptional. So, and as, it pertains to your child. So really taking ah you know taking a deep dive into your child and understanding their strengths understanding their challenges understanding their interests. And as you mentioned earlier Angie these kids can do quite well masking right?
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: So, they and I hear all the time, and you probably do from parents too, who say, my child seems to do okay at school and then they come home and they just like unload on me right? Like all this frustration all of this just you know completely different child. And I feel like a lot of times it’s because maybe they are having barriers at school, whether it be academic barriers or social barriers and then they come home and they’re just exhausted, they’re totally drained.
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: And then a couple other things to just think about in general when you’re educating yourself on your kid is not always just assuming that behaviors, they’re engaging in fall under like a category such as like lazy right?
Angie: Mhmm.
Kristin: Or I hear that one a lot, or even if they’re acting out in the classroom it might not be because they’re just ah you know I hate to say a bad kid right but really taking some time to understand maybe they’re bored. Maybe they need some enrichment programs um or maybe the content is really hard like we said before.
Angie: Mhmm.
Kristin: I definitely feel like this is a tricky one for parents to figure out, like are their needs getting met in the classroom? And I talk with parents all the time about having them ask for additional work for their child, right? So, if your child is, or they finish all their work well could they have a little workbook they keep in their desk and that could keep them busy. So, it’s just important to kind of take a look at all of these things and make sure your child’s needs are being met in the classroom.
Angie: Yeah absolutely. I think depending on the age of the child too the extra work sort of thing could be a go well or backfire. I remember just going back to school, you do the back-to-school night, and I remember there were always some parents that are like I’d like extra work for my child, extra homework and all that stuff. And I’m thinking gosh that kid is probably like mom no, right?
Kristin: Right.
Angie: So, I think be creative, be thoughtful about that, talk with your teacher. It might be some kids like more hands-on project sort of things or more out of school enrichment sort of activities that are fun and linked to their interests. I think the answer isn’t we got to think beyond just let’s do extra worksheets you know because we don’t want it to be a punitive thing that hey, you’re super smart. You’re way advanced, let’s just load you down with more work. So, I do think we got to kind of think creatively. And if your child’s vocal then maybe they can weigh in on some of that stuff too.
Kristin: That’s such a good point too. And I think it is helpful for teachers to even think about well what else could kids be doing in the classroom that could be helpful? I have a… ah Well and this one may be again depending on your child, um sometimes kids want to help another child right? So, like oh you’ve already finished, go ahead and help Johnny for example, right? I feel like that could be helpful too again, but it just depends on the child and if they would like to do that but yeah definitely getting creative there and giving them, I think keeping them busy right?
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: Keeping kids busy is going to be-
Angie: Right and engaged.
Kristin: Ah, yes busy and engaged, kind of stimulating their mind as much as they need, I think is going to be really helpful.
Angie: Yeah well, we see that a lot, right? Kids maybe who have ADHD and are whizzing through all of their work, sometimes they might become what the teacher would define as disruptive right? Like they’re talking, or they’re just they’re bored, and they they’ve just they know all this stuff, right? And so yeah getting creative on how we can engage, that applies to home as well.
Kristin: Mmhmm.
Tip #2: Learn How 2E Kids Operate
Angie: All right let’s get into the next one. Next one is kind of get to know how two eKids operate. Um, we want to try to resist the urge to follow a kind of quote unquote traditional timeline. And also resist that urge to compare kids ah compare them to other kids maybe your other children that you have or their friends. This can take a little bit of patience, right? They might be falling behind perhaps socially their peers, and that can be frustrating. Also, I know you probably see this too a lot Kristin we’ve got some kids that are super, super smart, but their behavior, or their maturity level, or their social skills are lagging behind their peers. And so, people um you know expect different things of them, right? So, the expectation is a little bit mismatched with their potential and kind of their chronological age and their developmental age and so on. So, it’s really important to recognize those different strengths and challenges, be patient. Um, if they are really falling behind on you know certain skills in a certain area it’s important to seek help. You know right, so maybe a common area that we see is executive functioning skills. Perhaps your child is you know quote unquote genius right into certain skills but then maybe they forget to brush their teeth. You know we see this a lot, right? These kids that are performing three grade levels above in math and in science, but they need to be reminded, or they need help from their parents to pick out their clothes as fifth graders, right? Or they just they can’t keep themselves organized. So, it is really important to kind of understand that 2E kids are unique and we have to remember if let’s say they’re performing well but above their grade level but they’re struggling. We have to make sure that we account for those challenges, know where they you know where they’re operating and be patient and kind of bring in some support in those certain areas where they need it.
Kristin: Mm hmm. Yeah, it’s so important you bring that up because it really probably to most parents feels like a mismatch, right? You’re like wait a second my child is so smart and, in these things, and why is that not overlapping with hygiene for example, right? You know, how do they not know how to do that or why are they just not doing that?
Angie: Right.
Kristin: And so, I can see how it would be so easy to misinterpret the situation for parents but also for teachers. I mean, I could definitely see this going south with a lot of teachers, like you know because they’re, they of course they probably have the kids a ton, but they really just get a glimpse of the child. So yeah so, it’s so interesting too that you mentioned that, and I think it’s really important to say okay where is my child at? And they’re going to have you know like this jagged skills or splintered skills, right? And we know okay this is where I need to focus. Um I actually just had a consultation yesterday with a parent and we were talking about this actually. And he had not had any sort of like neuropsychic evaluation done or anything. So, she isn’t really sure kind of where he falls on this scale, um but she was saying that it was interesting because everything she was describing is what we were talking about. She was like he’s so smart in math, like Math is there, he’s got it, he’s got everything, but he’s just really immature in comparison to his peers. And so, it was just interesting because everything we’re saying I think that parent would be like yes this is this is exactly what I’ve been saying.
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: So yeah, it’s a puzzle. It’s definitely a puzzle.
Tip #3: Look for Accommodations for Your 2E Children
Kristin: Yeah so, the next one ah we wanted to talk a little bit about looking for accommodations. So, if as we and we mentioned this one already a little bit. So, any sort of enrichment programs or things that we can do to keep kids busy, but it’s helpful to kind of look to see what’s available to you around, at home or at school just so that they aren’t bored, right? And so, we can keep kids busy and um or maybe the other side maybe they’re actually overstimulated. Maybe they’ve got a lot going on like we said, and some kids need to come home and they need to just relax, right? So, you know looking into those things to see what’s available. Uh, I would say probably at school they’re probably going to have some accommodations, right? Like ah naturally, like we’ve said so far, if a child is struggling in an area, like maybe math, or maybe they’re struggling in reading right they might have some sort of accommodations already in the classroom. So things like you know a reading program and things like that, so there’s definitely in this at least in the school front I feel like maybe and I could be wrong but maybe that’s easier for parents to have that that box checked and have those things covered but certainly reaching out to your child’s teachers and seeing what’s available and just trying to figure out how you can make some accommodations at school and then maybe even asking them things you could do at home to support your child as well.
Angie: Yeah absolutely. I think that you had mentioned a puzzle. It does become a little bit of a puzzle when we’re looking at accommodations, um I’ve been reading a couple of articles, and they talk about this like Goldilocks concept, right? Where you know if you remember the story Goldilocks and the Three Bears right? Like you know, one porridge is too hot, one porridge is too cold, one is just right. One bed is too hard, one’s too soft, one’s just right. So when you have a child who’s considered twice exceptional, you know maybe they don’t fit in a full-blown special education program right, but then maybe they don’t fit in a gifted program because they have you know challenges that are going to make it difficult to stick with the rigor of a program like that right?
Kristin: Yeah.
Angie: So, it does make it tricky. So that’s why I think that Goldilocks concept of trying to find just the right accommodations, just the right placement, it is very fitting for this, this cohort of kids.
Kristin: Yeah. Oh, that’s so true. I was just picturing it as you were saying it. It’s like picturing Goldilocks.
Challenges with Social-Emotional Learning
Angie: Yeah. So anyway, so let’s move on to the next one. We’re going to talk a little bit about challenges with social-emotional learning. And then out I know you’re going to talk a little bit about the mental health challenges. So, when we found out well like I said we’ve known for a long time about our daughter. We’ve never kind of pursued any special diagnostics or um testing giftedness testing as we just kind of had to let it happen organically through the school system, but once we did get that official kind of letter in the mail we were invited to go to different in-services. So, the school district that we have has a pretty it’s a robust gifted and talented education system and so, I was really interested to go to these in services especially just with my background, my educational background, I’m like I want to see what this is all about you know. So, I went, and I was fascinated just because as you know social emotional learning that’s a big interest of mine. Um I love kind of learning about that topic and teaching about it. And so, no surprise the kind of lead teacher who has a specialty in giftedness and also 2E kids was talking about how a lot of these kids have struggles in their areas of social emotional learning.
Difficulty Relating to Peers
Angie: Um for example maybe it’s difficult for them to relate to their peers their same age peers because they have different interests. Their skill levels are just off the charts compared to their peers. Um, they have what we call asynchronous development. I talked about this a little bit earlier, right? So, some adults might actually be expecting more from them, maybe socially or emotionally, because academically they’re so ah strong and um you know advanced but then maybe they’re having a meltdown or they’re crying in class and so it could be confusing to the teachers or other kids.
Kristin: Mhmm yeah.
Risk of Bullying
Angie: There’s also because of that because of these kind of mismatches and skills and maybe ah abilities socially there could be an elevated risk of bullying. We also see a lot of instances of perfectionism and then self-esteem issues. We see that already with children with ADHD, but it could be heightened if you’re considered 2E.
Feeling Like They Don’t Belong
Angie: And then feeling like they don’t belong in any group which you know is just kind of like really pulls up my heartstrings you know? Um I think again it’s kind of that mismatch, right? Like academically they might be, or maybe musically or sports-wise, something they’re far beyond their peers but then you know another aspect that might be below their peers so, they oftentimes when you talk to 2E kids and 2E adults they will say yeah, I don’t I don’t really know where I fit in. I don’t I don’t really maybe gel. And so, the tip there really is to help them find peers with similar interests. If your child is gifted musically, can they do camps for kids that also are musically gifted? Or like we said earlier if your child’s gifted academically maybe they do enrichment activities, fun camps, fun you know, after school sort of things so they can interact with kids that are similar or love the same sort of things that they do and so that they feel like they have a kind of a tribe or people that have same you know the same interests as them.
Kristin: Yeah. Yeah, that’s so important. Yeah, I was just thinking that it it’s got to be hard to kind of sit in that in-between right? Like I don’t fit in here I don’t fit in here, and I think that’s it’s exactly what you can do as a parent help them find, and that’s the advice I would give to parents, right, help them find their tribe is usually what I say. And um and I think that’s why it’s so important going back to the first tip that you had mentioned, or I mentioned someone mentioned where we really got to get to know our child right? So, if we get, we take the time and invest in learning about them what do they like, what are they interested in? Then it’s going to be easier for us as parents to say okay, well let’s join into this special club this summer, so yeah.
Angie: Yeah. it’s I will say side note, my kids every year we do some workbooks we do enrichment things just to kind of bridge from one grade to the next and yesterday we went to, so we went to this bookstore and um my kids were getting some books, and they were saying well mom we do they do this thing called noetic math which is like a gifted math program and they’re like can we do you know other subjects let’s not do the math because we’re already doing noetic math let’s not get a math notebook I’m like okay that’s you know that’s that seems fair I’ll defer to you guys on that but um speaking of enrichment stuff it’s funny because my daughter, my older daughter, was doing her noetic math and it’s you know like 6th, 7th grade math she’s going into 6th grade but this is this is like gifted math so she’s asking me a question and I’m like, girlfriend I have no idea, I’m sorry you’ve I’ve already you’ve already passed me in where I can help you.
Kristin: Ha ha.
Angie: It’s yeah so, it’s kind of funny. So, it’s good to get them involved in things where they’re around other people that make them feel quote unquote normal and you know like support them because I am just, she’s already out of my league a little bit it’s kind of crazy.
Kristin: Yeah no, I’m in so much trouble. I’m not even kidding. I am in so much trouble when my kids get to the grade where like I can’t support them anymore with their work and it’s probably going to be next year honestly because there was … I don’t know if I was telling you this I, hopefully wasn’t on already on the podcast, but I did I tell you the story about like how Parker had a homework assignment to do, and it was a math problem? Did I tell you this already on the podcast?
Angie: Uh no, no.
Kristin: Okay if it’s not ringing a bell then it didn’t. So, no one, no one has heard this yet. So, this was like the end of the school year, and he had a math problem to do. And I read the, and I can’t remember it now because it was too far ago, but um, I was reading the math problem, and I was like it was like a word problem, it said like what is the difference in inches that shows you the, so it was something ridiculous I can’t even repeat it. And I was like wow I stared at that for a solid 2 minutes and I was like I don’t know. And then my husband’s like really, really smart. So, I was like okay well surely here go give it to daddy, he’ll get it. And then my husband stood there and stared at it too for like another like 5 minutes. And he was like I don’t know. And I was like okay we’re in trouble because this is 2nd grade math. And we did not like, and I have, actually I am proud of myself because I figured it out, I was like oh I get it, I know what it’s asking, and I got it, but it was even that and I was like well we’re in so much trouble when they get older.
Angie: Well, they do they do, to our defense, with Common Core and different ways.
Kristin: They ranged it up.
Angie: Yeah, they teach it in a different way. There’s a lot more critical thinking and kind of like how you arrived at the problem as opposed to when we were kids it was more like rote memorization.
Kristin: Yes.
Angie: And you know, so I think it’s good. I think it’s good that they’re trying to kind of expand the way that kids are learning and really get them to think about stuff, but yeah, it definitely makes it makes it challenging.
Kristin: Really tough.
Angie: And then when you have like an ah gifted kid or a 2E kid we’re just like yeah, we’re just out of luck.
Kristin: Yeah.
Angie: So, we’re normalizing this folks, normalizing it that it is it can be tough.
Mental Health
Kristin: Yeah, yes so, speaking of how it can be tough I think the next one we you previously just mentioned you know social and emotional skills but it’s important to also think about your kids’ mental health right? And so this is very similar to what you were mentioning before, but a lot of kids who are twice exceptional like you had said right they just feel different and so, they feel like they don’t fit in and therefore there’s, as you had said, risk to being bullied and um you know risk of just kind of withdrawing from peers because socially, they feel like they’re not there right? And so, this is going to increase the likelihood that there could be some mental health challenges, maybe depression or anxiety. And so, it’s just really important to pay attention to this and start thinking about or looking for the signs. We actually did a podcast a while ago and I wonder if we should do another one bring it back around again.
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: But remember we did ah one on mental health for kids it’s probably like two years ago.
Angie: Yeah, I think we had Darren, Dr. Sesh on. Was that the one?
Kristin: Yep, that’s the one. Yeah, so, we did that one and I feel like maybe it could be a topic we bring up again.
Tip #4: Make Home a Safe Space
Kristin: But you know as parents what we can do is create like I had said earlier, you know creating a bit of a safe haven for kids. So, they’ve got all this stress going on at school they’re maybe, you know, thriving academically like we said, but having a really hard time socially. Maybe they are having some conflict with their friends and peers. So really having that safe space at home for them to just relax and unwind and maybe share some of the information with you.
Tip #5: Seek Counseling
Kristin: And then also but maybe seeking counseling. If you’re okay with that it, it might be really helpful to have your child maybe go and talk to somebody about some of the challenges that are associated with them being twice exceptional.
Angie: Yeah absolutely. Yeah, finding a mental health professional that can specialize in this area would be you know the but the best scenario as well.
Kristin: Oh yeah totally.
Angie: Yeah, the school district might be able to help with that too, school psychologists or school counselors and you know if you want to find somebody in private practice, they may know people in their network that specialize in that. So yeah, there’s also a lot of things on-
Kristin: And you could ask your pediatrician.
Angie: Yeah, absolutely through the medical kind of system or there’s a lot of stuff online too that can find people you can search.
Tip #6: Find and Nurture their Strengths
Angie: So okay. So, we’re getting down to the last couple of tips here. But one of the things that is really important when you have a two-year child is to find their strengths and nurture them, right? So, this can really be a good protective factor against things like self-esteem issues and let’s say for example you have a child who’s in special education, but they’re also maybe gifted musically. A lot of times with the IEP and maybe they’ve got tutors and stuff it could like kind of supersede or trump the gifted qualities, right? And that could impact their self-concept, right? How they feel about themselves, but they have this incredible strength. And so, we really want to make sure that we’re keying into that and so it might be doing fun things to nurture that and elevate that. So, it might be something like enrolling in um music competitions, right? Or maybe your child is really excelling in math. So, you do math competitions. That’s but something might my daughter just did. She got a ribbon, and she was so stoked about that ribbon. You know, it also makes them feel cool. If you think about like bullying right if someone’s like oh why are you doing math, why are you so good in math and you’re being a goody-goody, or whatever it is right, but you do these competitions you with these medals and these trophies and you’re around other kids that are really jazzed about the same thing make them feel good about themselves and make them feel like wow this is actually a gift not something that I should be embarrassed about or hide away.
Kristin: Yeah oh, that’s so important. Yeah, it’s so smart. I was just thinking about even the spelling bee. We had I think someone from Tampa just won the spelling bee.
Angie: Yeah. Oh, that’s right.
Kristin: Yeah, I was like yeah go Tampa Bay.
Angie: Yeah, those kids are amazing.
Kristin: I know, I know. Yeah so, I think that’s yeah, it’s so smart. You know figure out what they’re really you know strong in and then help them nurture that and really grow that self-confidence.
Tip #7: Take Care of Yourself
Kristin: Yeah, so just a couple more I guess maybe the most important ah taking care of yourself, right? So, we always say all the time it’s really hard to be a parent, there’s no playbook for being a parent and um but it’s even more difficult when you have a child who is twice exceptional because it’s very exhausting right? Like we said we’ve already said so much during this podcast it is a bit of a puzzle and it’s trying to figure out what fits right? Like what is just right? How do we make that just right happen all the time? And that can be really exhausting. So, it’s really important to kind of lean into your own self-care. What can you do for yourself? Make sure you’re taking breaks and really making sure to have other you know create other activities for your child. And maybe even I know we’ve talked about this a lot Angie and I know you do this just naturally just as a parent, but you know leaning into other parents to support you with your child right? So, you could say hey can you pick up the kids this time, I’ll pick them up next time, things like that. So, where you can share the responsibility with other parents, I think could be really helpful too.
Angie: Yeah absolutely. Yeah. I think not even like the logistics of parenting but raising 2E kids. It’s like a double whammy, right? They have challenges but then they have extreme abilities and I know a lot of parents I would put myself in this bucket as well when you have a kid that’s got an insatiable amount of curiosity and they’re constantly asking questions that you don’t know the answers to it can be really draining right? It could be really draining. So, um yeah, I think being able to take care of yourself so that you have the energy is going to be super, super important, yeah.
Kristin: So, I have a question for you that is not that we didn’t even talk about but it’s a question that just came to my mind. So put you on the spot. So how, and we kind of talk about this a lot with parents who have multiple kids and one that has you know any sort of additional need right, so how do you balance that this between your girls? So, you know how have you been able to manage that?
Angie: I don’t know if you can hear them playing in the background there.
Kristin: I can, I hear them.
Angie: I thought they were gone. I thought they were gone but they are not.
Kristin: Well, they sound like they’re having fun. You could say this quietly, so they don’t hear you.
Angie: Ah yeah, so, I think it goes back to just nurturing each individual strengths, right? So, I have one kid who’s gifted but maybe struggling in other areas more executive functioning areas um and I have like another child who does well, but she studies right? She’s got to study. She’s very organized great executive functioning skills but she’s kind of I think more like me like she wants to get good grades. She’s got to put in the work. She has to study. Um my older one I don’t know how she does it like I think the information just like travels to her brain through osmosis and she just like doesn’t have to she just knows she just knows everything. I don’t get it but there’s you know there’s challenges in other areas too. So yeah so, I just kind of try to highlight the strengths of both of them. And it’s hard. It’s a hard thing to do. But I think this translates to general parenting, right?
Kristin: Right.
Angie: All kids are going to have strengths and challenges. So, I think when you have a gifted child, or a child and you know who’s in special education, you can apply that same framework there it’s just each kid is going to need like slightly different parenting from you. Each kid needs something different from you. Each kid wants to be appreciated, and um have their strengths acknowledged. And they’re just probably going to be different strengths. So yeah, I try to just keep it pretty standard like that.
Kristin: Yeah. I like that. And you’re right. It can be just kind of what we would generally, would do for parents for kids anyway because I tell parents all the time like just because you have two kids from the same parents does not mean they’re going to be the same.
Angie: Oh absolutely.
Kristin: Right like they are so different. And in fact, I think it’s more often than not that they are polar opposites. At least it’s definitely like that in my house and I remember I have an older sister who’s 18 months older than me and I am like your youngest and she is like your oldest. And I like had to study and like really had to work hard and she would just like open the book and like peek at it and then get an A. And I’m like how? Why? Not fair. So, I can totally empathize with your younger one because if she is listen if she is mad at her big sis can just like look at the book and get it you tell her to call me because I will help her, and I’ll let her know listen I’ve been there girl.
Angie: Yeah.
Kristin: It’s hard. It’s hard being the younger sibling when somebody is just like how do you do that? So yeah.
Angie: I know I know. It is, it is so puzzling to me how my kids have the same parents but they’re completely different individuals.
Kristin: Yeah, yeah.
Angie: Yeah, that’s I think that’s what makes parenting challenging sometimes though is being able to cater to different needs and different strengths. So yeah, we just you know we do the best we can. We can’t be at everything to everyone. We just we do what we can and yeah, it’s tricky.
Tip #8: Seek Resources for Supporting 2E Children
Angie: So anyways let’s get on to our very last tip. Um this is kind of like a yeah compilation, but I would say, all in all, if you have ah twice an exceptional child as we talked about it can be difficult to know how to support them. and so, I would really encourage parents to seek out resources. There are people that are experts in this right? There are people that are experts in special education, gifted children, 2E children, luckily there’s a lot of articles and stuff out there. We like ADDitude Magazine. That’s A-D-D-I-T-U-D-E so kind of like ADDitude. Understood dot.org is one that we cite very often. Um, The Child Mind Institute has a lot of good parenting content on it. And then also I mentioned it before check in with your school or search kind of local services. I know in in California we have this thing called Parents Helping Parents and they have so ah support groups for parents that you can attend. and so, and I would say definitely do a little bit of due diligence, seek out resources because this is such a unique cohort of kids who want to make sure that we’re nurturing their strengths and making them feel good about their abilities. So yeah, I think that’s all we’ve got for today.
Kristin: Yeah, yeah don’t be afraid to reach out to for resources. I think that’s definitely really important. Okay. Well, thank you for joining us on our 49th episode of Behaviorally Speaking. On our next episode we will discuss potty training. Until then don’t forget to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode.
You’ve been listening to Behaviorally Speaking, with Angela Nelson and Kristin Bandi, brought to you by RethinkCare. Find out more at rethinkcare.com. You can find past podcast episodes under the Resources tab. We also invite you to subscribe, follow, like, and leave us feedback wherever you listen to podcasts. Your feedback helps us prepare topics and content for future episodes. Until next time, have a great day.
